NTPA Rulebook - Publications Are you a puller? Or just thinking about becoming one?. To order a NTPA rulebook, order online, call the NTPA office at or mail $6 plus $2 shipping and handling to WPI/NTPA, B Huntley Rd. NTPA Rule Book. Are you a puller? Or thinking about becoming one? Or maybe you're a fan and want to know the nuts and bolts of this pulling thing.
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ISP Rulebook 2. Let ISP help General Tractor Safety Rules. NA Super .. is exempt from certification as long as they are NTPA stamped. Rule Books Compliments of. Clay GMC Changes to rule book are in bold print 2X4 TO BE BUILT ACCORDING TO NTPA PULLING RULES WITH THE. LT PRO WILL BE TECHED BY THE CURRENT NTPA RULE BOOK 10, PRO STOCK TRACTORS WILL FOLLOW PPL RULES FOR THEIR CLASS WITH .
Think they just cleared up a little gray area. Tracks will a maximum of feet with no exceptionboundary lines will extend to feet. Vehicles get red flagged if they exceed the feet and must come back for a pulloff 3.
This may be used for kill switch testing 4. The diesel fuel testing system and rules has been reinstated with new specs, The rule will read: The rule now reads on page 5: Engines 1 Steel billet, aluminum billet and steel recast blocks allowed.
C Haney. Last piece of "stock" now gone from the "super stock" class. Where did the restrictor plate thing come from? Team one. How would this restrictor plate rule work for a tractor like smoke n mirrors that has 3 turbos pulling air in rather than 2?
I would think he will now have an advantage Simple math. Two primary turbo setups would run one size and three turbo please primary setups would run another size to make the two have equal airflow.
LSS Fan. Bob, Does that mean we will be seeing stormy with a billet alluminum block this summer? Stormy Registered: Unfortunately, No, I knew nothing about this coming out, and I sold The Rolling Chassis and Turbos to Mark Fileatrau from Bardstown Ky, he and Mike Wilhite are in process of building 2 Red motors to go in the rigs and they will run out of the same trailer this coming season.
With shop workload, due to recent Pro Stock and TWD success's I don't see getting anything out this coming season for sure! I wish I had known this was even possible, because both me and Mike would build billet blocks and keep going! I can see this idea ruining a lot of effective turbo set ups because they won't be able to turn them anymore , making this another expensive move! Jake Morgan Admin Registered: Everybody will suck air through the same size hole or the sum area of multiple holes regardless of how many turbos they have on the top stage.
This rule will really hurt the Smoke and Mirrors team since John's setup is a high volume low pressure system and the restrictor plate restricts volume. I believe Jody Ross has two huge top chargers as well so it will have a big impact on him also.
The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going.
Donations for: The "sum area of multiple holes" definitely sounds like a disadvantage for those kind of turbo set-ups Ex ntpa puller. The tech part probably won't matter it will be just another rule that nobody will enforce just like the rest of them Reply Quote Tweet Facebook. AV Registered: And then we get to see all the "engineering" behind those 3 types of openings and find out what combo is best and what wheels work best. Adam, Thanks for doing the math. Some quick questions: If they get different sizes what happens to the Diesel tractors in the LSS?
I'm guessing that these are some of the details that are currently getting ironed out. Truck puller. The size will depend on what hp they want the class to be.
SSD has just been killed. Going the way of Nascar whatever that is. We aren't stupid. Turbo restrictions only result in ONE thing. Higher prices. Always has and always will. I hope the class "kneels down" for the season. None of these dss guys are actually getting full power out of their primary turbos.
I could care less if he has 4. Two 4. The reason they do run larger is so they can make more power with less boost. If you would actually look at my post I'm against changing these rules. Especially because the people in charge of these associations have no clue how for example turbos work or what you can do to them. They are out their for themselves and not the pullers.
Changing a bunch of rules will continue to make the class smaller and drive cost up. What they should be doing is working together to change the mindset of pullers about the diesel super stock class. To get guys wanting to run this class again. The reason I never built a tractor in the first place is because all the exaggerated numbers people were say things cost and everyone said it.
Which makes people think I could never do that so they loose interest they dont even try. These turbos you see in the dss class cost nowhere near 5k. Ross Fan. You my friend are wrong. If we are talking triple bypass, he is making over hp. And I am sure Jody wishes his turbos cost LOL, get real and don't talk about stuff you really have no idea about.
All these new ideas are just agenda items, not Rules, so please keep that in mind. Its his choice if he wants to way over pay for turbos and other parts. But don't act like they cost anywhere near what these guys are paying. I guarantee there is nothing special about his or anyone elses. If he really has 4. You could try google.
Search for garret thumper or uv Nothing custom about them. If you want a billet wheel that is extra but doesn't add much to the cost. G trim is to small. Who is running G trim? Oh your that guy Please tell me more about this awesome truck you pull. I suppose it makes hp and you drive it to the pulls.
Jody is making over lbs of boost, do you think stock turbos will hold up to that? Put your phone away and get back to class Reply Quote Tweet Facebook. Robert Alves. I might be ignorant to this subject but I have heard cam placement is a disadvantage in a lot of motors. Wouldn't the overhead cam been a better solution to billet blocks. Is it possible for everyone to run a wastegate with a lower setting that everyone could agree would still make power but not blow the top off the motor???
Dick Morgan Moderator Registered: Something had to be done to starve off the extinction of SS pulling at the national level. Granted the LSS in most parts of the country has plenty of state level places to hook. I believe that the NTPA has taken the lead once again in writing rules that will not only save the SS classes but also has the potential of growth within classes. Lets face it the growth in has been stagnant for years. Now whether this will translate into more national growth is yet to be seen.
I realize that for some pullers the new rules comes with a cost, however over time I would like to believe that with these rules more debility will help offset the cost of conforming to the new rules. Costs just as much to get the first place tractor down the road as it does the last place one. But I can do it on peanuts nor can anyone else. Your diesel super rules fix nothing. Last I checked you needed a fuel source to burn air. Let's Worry about thunder when lightening burns your house down.
I agree. The problems is, the guys running at the top of GN DSS class are not going to quit trying to be at the top of the class.
So now they have to figure out how to get the HP back that they will lose from the restrictor plate. Guess how they are going to get that HP back? Money, lots of money They will have to go to a much more aggressive compressor and exhaust wheel and drive them much harder. And then the turbos are not going to live as long This rule is going to make Hypermax and Columbus very happy.
Hypers current PS turbo only lasts 8 passes,,,,, 9 if you are lucky. And this is different how? Didn't say it was good,,,,, just that it is no different. I know everyone says "let's increase the purse money" however pulling needs to work with the present day reality's that the purse that is being paid will not go anywhere until the pullers themselves stop selling their product so cheaply.
Maybe it's time to cap all classes at 16 hooks per class and have the promoters bid on the classes they want. Like any product supply and demand should drive the market.
Dick Morgan www. Seems the only time a pull increases a purse it's to the winner. That solves nothing towards the goal of getting more participation in the class.
Reality tells you that if you go to every pull expecting to win, you are going for the wrong reason. If you want to fill the field, you have to reward them. To Mr. Morgan While you and many others may have good ideas, there is one central problem to all that has happened, does happen and will happen.
It is called lack of thought. How does it really effect the puller?? Is this really the best thing to do?? What dollars are involved?? You cannot present an item discuss for a hour or so and make a blanket statement this is the rule. This is not going to improve numbers in class for a number of various reasons.
To many pulling organizations for one, The 3 major players are each going to follow some what of a different rule. How many people can really compete and follow at a national level? Numbers are few for sure. Your numbers are limited no matter what?? Billet blocks do not improve anything but drive up costs and make the number smaller of those available to even consider the national level. The air restriction rules is one that lacks thought. Quit making the pullers guinea pigs and spend their money to decide if this is right or not.
Plus who's behind this,where did they pull the magic number of 4" out of?? Is there any previous research on that?? Who did it?? What classes did it?? Does it work good for both alky and DSS tractors. Who knows??? No one does. No one is going to fix this problem and things will not change. A puller just gets to decided if they want to spend the money or get out. Could ramble on for sometime over this and many issues that plague the world of pulling.
Thanks for your response. Let me ask you one question: Morgan Answer to your question 1. Is there enough pullers to follow a national circuit.
Answer is Yes. But are there enough pullers to follow multiple national circuits and answer is No. It has been said many times on this board, Pulling is a hobby not a profession. So what does that mean? The sport of pulling is so diluted with so many organizations you just are not going to have numbers, know matter what rules get changed.
There were what, 20 some in the class and most likely you could name 20 more that could have been there but were not. I wish there was a magical answer cure all for it, but there is not.
Thank you Reply Quote Tweet Facebook. Ross Castner Registered: Food for thought 1. Everyday it costs more to live. Wages don't seem to follow these costs. Everyday people talented people are replaced by a robot to weld steel, a tractor that self drives, a google car that self drives, robots that pull shipping orders, drones that will replace the brown truck driver, a bulldozer that auto grades and so on.
As more time passes It will be interesting to see what people as a society will do for a value added service and what their compensation will be.
Does a patroon cut down on the number events they spectate at? I marvel at the "how its made" and similar type tv series, the efficiency some of the factories have, even the heritage iron magazine had an article on the the new steiger factory and the rate that it could complete a new tractor in over 30 years ago!! The point is; that in scale volume, a product can become refined and cost effective. If a billet or recast block could be produced on a large scale what would the cost be?
At some point it has got to cost more to modify an existing part that it does to have a purpose designed part. Did the rule this slow progress down? I don't know I would assume the same will apply to turbo limits.
The amount of talented people and the resources available to a modern day competitor across our great country are astounding.
Nothing is ever perfect. There are issues that need to be addressed. Taking the time and effort to evaluate potential solutions while weighing all the ramifications is tedious job.
I would hate to see things get rushed into and overlooked due to the age ole " well it looked good on paper" routine. More is better. We definitely need more pullers at the GN level. But, how many do we need? We are talking about the premiere pullers in each class, how many premiere pullers do we need in each class?
Ask all the regional pullers why they don't step up to GN and I bet they will all say time and Money. So how do you give them more time off work and more money to build a GN level puller?
How much would it take. Not sure that raising purse is feasible. How much would the purse need to be raised to get 10 regional DSS to step up and run a full GN season? Where would that money come from? KevinCampbell Registered: Dick, You make a good point that pullers are selling themselves short. It will take the pullers coming together as a group to have a chance to change payouts. The cost to run all over the country has increased over the years. On an average weekend it would normally average 6 hr drive time one way for gn pulls.
So for a round trip cost of fuel would be aprox I would normally take per day of pulling for expenses. That might sound extreme but pay for meals,and other needed things on the road and you wont come home with much. This is very conservative math. At any time this cost can rise 20kk with major failure. This breakdown persents a few issues and conflicts to pullers. When we look that over and realize how stupid we are it makes it hard to seem credible asking for more money because it would never be enough on purse alone.
The probelm in there is that the purse for winning would not even cover the weekend expenses if you win everytime. It will not cover basic expenses with out even considering the pulling vehicle repairs. How can you attract anyone new to come along and play if they know they need a k hauler and 50k support items, along with a k puller, then cant even cover the weekend expenses.
This is where it will sound like a contradiction to the above Even with all the expense and stupid behavior of the pullers for doing this for nothing we still dont like restrictions on hp. The same people will come regardless because we like to do it and cost be dammed.
Its not too good on the pocket book but its just and accepted fact that you want to go out there and win. Putting restrictor plates on ss tractors just does not make sense. It goes aginst the very idea of what they are. These are suppose to be the premier tractor classes with the most hp possible. To neuter the class takes away the spirit of what it is all about. It is too bad that the pro class wants to keep the same old 6cyl battle going on forever.
Would be nice to mix it up. Our plans were to have a based pro out for next year if it would have stayed legal. Oh well, maybe another v8 will be used. Kevin, You make very good points and this is a key issue that has been on my mind since I got in pulling. LSS Puller. So are these only grand national rules or will they be followed by state level associations?
Kevin H. USA did some of the speed runs with a christmas tree and a time clock. USHRA did some side by side drag racing in the domes with 2wd, 4x4, and triple engine mods. The triples hook up and go fast. Some of the Pro Shows pulls had pulling for the first half of the show and a country music concert for the 2nd half.
Just a thought - everything needs a little renovation every few years. I still enjoy seeing a good hammer down monster truck jumping some cars and doing donuts like Grave Digger or Bigfoot and then back to some pulling action.
Purely a builders rule Yet again And thanks to the most ridiculous rule in the book, you can wrap that in whatever sheetmetal you desire! They were all produced in a 2WD ag tractor, so stop your whining. There is a reason they didn't want the Circle that as the class I could care less to watch now.
Deerefever Registered: Read the rules First, put a name to a post. No need to be a coward. I am well aware of the rules and what is available to build. The v8 blocks available to build are crap. That is why i would not want to start with one of them. If thats want the class wants thats fine. I just dont like to have the same stuff as everyone else has. That is where the fun is for me. Thats the excitement i get out of it. I am always looking for doing the next better thing. Not just figuring out what others are using and downloading that.
I did not do that with the cummins alky and will not do it now. Both ntpa and ppl were both won by a 6cyl alky ss tractor this year so it ia hard to say the destroyed anything. Just helps push the bar higher. I get it, you are a purist tractor pulling fan. Meaning it should pull the way it was built from the factory. I love the idea too in some cases.
I still pull antique tractors from time to time and enjoy it. I have an oliver We built controlled chaos with one stock IH part. The headlight bucket. Even if we built a 6cyl it would not have one IH part in it. When at this level the stock parts are not the awnser. Puller There is a class for you to run the engine, pull in that class Reply Quote Tweet Facebook.
Real Effects of Rule Changes. It would be nice to hear the objectives of the rule makers when NTPA decided to add restrictor plates. The effect will likely vary widely between classes: In DSS, it may work.
As stated previously, though, it will most definitely increase the cost of turbochargers dramatically. Will this rule change compel new competitors to build and compete in this class? The competitors who do compete with NTPA will be the ones who are currently sub-par and can't compete without such "help".
And the people who do compete with NTPA will likely have a lot of fuel system related explosions and wind up spending major portions of the competition season rebuilding since these explosions seldom result in only minor repairs.
The restrictor plates will cause a significant change to the fuel curve the engine needs, so the existing fuel system tuning expertise will be of minimal benefit. The photographers should get a lot of good fireball shots, though. The best way for the organizations to "level the playing field" would be to decrease the advantage competitors gain with added horsepower, such as decreasing the competition weight.
No fireballs, will only richen existing setups. But I do think the restrictor plate thing was a terrible idea. Who proposed this and who all was ther to vote on it? LSS Fan Too. What's so terrible about the restrictor plate rule? I think it is a terrific idea to level the competition. You can only move so much air through an opening. MH49 Moderator. From my point of view, this restrictor plate idea was never meant to reduce cost in the sport, it is saying we have pushed everything to the limit and it is time to stop.
I have no idea if it will work or not but where the NTPA has failed is to not put any meat behind this announcement leaving us message board warriors wondering what it is all about. Love him or hate him, any time Doug Roberts makes a change like this, you get a complete statement on the history of issue, why the change is being made, why the change will work usually backed up by data such as dyno runs and what is to gain going forward.
Sully Registered: I appreciate the Pro stock pullers who stepped up and stop this. I know Iam going to take flack for saying this but the future of the class is the big block deere. Shipley has figured out or Harts motor or the boyd big blocks.
They have all used blocks allowed by the rules and have a considerable amount of power than others. I am still amazed by the amount of power 1 turbo can produce. But to allow another Big block motor will only hurt the class. Yes i know there is always big numbers at BG and it will continue as it should. Eventually there will be a need for billet big block deere motors too as they will become few are far between.
Just my two cents Reply Quote Tweet Facebook. SS FAN. IF this truly is a necessary step Would it make sense to give pullers two options: A restrictor plate class and an open class.
Go from three SS classes to two I'd be in favor of whatever would make the classes a good diesel vs. Doug Roberts Registered: I agree with Dick on this, everyone has watched this class lose numbers for years. The 7, Super Stock class had more than that. Most of the events that year had at least 15 to 20 tractors. I do not expect us to ever see those numbers again but it has to do better than the direction this class is going now, especially the last 3 years.
When you look at the proposed restrictions with a restrictor plate and if it is done right it will keep the Grand National tractors on the track without breakage and by bringing them back in horsepower closer to the regional and other DSS tractors in the country, they will get more competitor to hook with them at different locations.
There are still a lot of DSS tractors in different parts of the country and about 25 in our area on this side of river and over on the other side. Some of them will feel like they have a chance if they get the right draw, etc. I crunch a lot of numbers and try to pick up on trends in Outlaws every year and try to stay ahead of the problems. I got all this info straight off the NTPA website this morning.
When you look at the Grand National tractors compared to the others the average gap is about 38 feet. That is a huge amount with these modern drop sleds as they really tightened up distances when they came out compared to the older drag sleds without pan drop. Even the Grand National vehicles are getting a wider distance from top to bottom among themselves.
The average number of vehicles in the class this year was 8. You could probably drop another point off that average as a lot of vehicles bumped the sled for points and many scratches at two day event. At the Grand National events Hutchinson had 10 and all the rest were in single digits. Even then I wondered how long this class could keep this breakage up. In I saw Sieferts come into Jeff City with the points lead and break their engine the first night and out the rest of the year.
Then in Blagrave comes into Jeff City with the points lead and breaks their engine and out for rest of year. When you look at the people that have left this class you have to ask yourself why they left and a lot of them love pulling and went to a different class.
These are just a few that come to mind from my pulling days and lots of others. If done right and a restrictor plate is put on this class it will bring down the horsepower on the Grand National tractors and close that 38 foot gap between them and the rest of the DSS tractors in the country. The best shot this class has at getting more vehicles is from that pool of over DSS tractors that now know they do not have a chance to get close.
If that gap is closer without all the cost and maintenance some will try that Grand National circuit plus more will show up at Grand National events in their area. The numbers will also improve with the existing Grand National tractors if not all the breakage and scratches at events. If the horsepower is cut back then everyone will not need all the aftermarket parts and can stay in their budget.
They will still be competitive, but may not have the longevity. The ones that has the budget to download the aftermarket parts will not have a competitive advantage but a maintenance advantage. The second best way to get more DSS vehicles is for other pullers in different classes to see that this cost and maintenance has improved and might be an option for them as they want to move up in the sport from lesser classes.
This was not our main reason for less numbers this year after gaining vehicles three years in a row, but I feel it will be the main problem in the near future. Right now most are talking a 4 inch opening in restrictor plate on the top two turbos that equal 25 square inches of opening. No one knows for sure what that number needs to be and we have one tractor going to try that size this weekend in Brandon, SD.
We encourage others to do the same as the more we learn the better. I think a 4 inch restrictor plate will not make a difference on our tractors as most have 4. By the time you take out the area for the shaft and inside part of compressor wheel a 4 inch opening will not change anything.
I may be wrong but that is just my opinion. This will be a harder sell for NTPA as this will probably cut back the horsepower and that is the goal. This way pullers can hook with both associations when it fits their schedule. At first there will be some cost for Grand National tractors as they try to figure out what they need to do, but this one time expenditure has to be better than the expenditure of better turbos, pumps and aftermarket parts every year or two to be competitive and the maintenance that goes with it.
Time will tell! Judge Roy bean. Sounds like a schramk rule if u can't beat them get a rule change and screw the guys that were running big air and no pressure Ross Raymond Boxler this will make Hans jr want to come back right away Reply Quote Tweet Facebook. That may be what this rule accomplishes. Push out the the last of the pullers that want to excel and let let the guys that want to set around and drink beer instead of work on their tractors be the best of the best in tractor pulling.
This rule will not drive out any pullers that want to excel. Where are they going to go? Pullers pull because they love competition, engineering and the camaraderie.
And as far as the Young Blood team I would hardly call anybody that has won 5 championships in a row scared. Doug roberts, Are you looking to increase numbers at events with regional vehicles from those areas the events are at or regional vehicles campain the gn tour?
You might get some vehicles to come to events in their area but i could not see someone joining on for the tour. The cost of travel all over is still there and kept them away in the first place. I guess i am just curious as to your motives on this.
Is the concern numbers at individual events or overall points tractor numbers? While I agree it sucked for these competitors that it happened to, if the tie is fastened "tight" the tie has to break in order to pull the killswitch.
The ties we use are not a "Lowes or hardware store" wire tie.
They are a "18lb" test wire tie that NTPA uses. New SF turbo 3"charger Question: Mr. Richwine, I hear that Hart has a new 3" charger that measures a fuzz over 3 inches. Will that be allowed to run at a UPOC event? If so what's the limit? Answer: I heard about the new turbo and have had a couple of calls already. I can assure you that NTPA won't allow that and if they are found to be on a tractor at a NTPA event, they won't be allowed to run or if they are found to have run after the fact the tractor will be DQ'd.
As luck would have it, I will be at Pinetops and Benson and will make sure the SF chargers are checked. I have a D and need to mount an AccuFeed cage to it. Where is it and what do I need to do? The mounting to a OEM chassis is as follows: Mounting must use at least 3 axle housing bolts on each side as well as 1 bolt before and after the axle housing. Answer: There are many schools of thought on that. The Bauer Team are the ones to really ask. Here are some of the meanings that I've heard: 1.
Whole Family Operation 2. World Family Out reach 3. Wide Friggin Open Question: Mr. Richwine, I am building a Mini Rod and have a question about the webbing between the upright tubes? Can they be lightened? If so, how much?